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HomeMy WebLinkAbout09-14-81 Civil Service Commission Meeting minutes• MINUTES OF CITY OF LA PORTE CIVIL SERVICE COMMISSION ORGANIZATIONAL MEETING SEPTEMBER 14, 1981 Hudgens: The first item on the agenda is the organization and selection of a Civil Service Chairman and Vice Chairman and since we don't have a Chairman yet, if you don't mind, I'll serve as Chairman til you all decide who is~going to be Chairman. Trainer: We have, what, a Chairman to appoint, a Vice Chairman and then the Director? Hudgens: Director? Trainer: Yeah, what's called a director? Do we have to do that? Hudgens: Is there a provision for a Director? Oh, no - ah - Mary's the Director. Tact provides that the City has a - ah - a person regardless of what they shall be called, they shall become the Civil Service Director and Mary has been (. our Personnel Coordinator for nigh on to three years now, so--- Trainer: The Act calls that if there is a Personnel Manager in the City, that person will act as the Director to the Commission? Hudgens: Right, and will serve as secretary, keep the minutes, post the meetings. Trainer: I don't have any problem with that, I just didn't read it in that Act. Hudgens: (to Davis) Do you have a copy of the--of the--do you know what section t~Fiat~s in? Trainer: I can't think of anybody any better to do it, I'll tell you that. Randall: I'll second that. Trainer: It's just that, ah--- H-ud9ens-: It is provided, however, that in those cities which have a duly and eal _ally constituted Director of Civil Service, by whatever name he shall be called, said Director shall be the Director of the Firemen and Policemen's Civil Service, but he shall administer Civil Service pertaining to Firemen and Policemen in, accordance with this law. ~•. • • Civil Service Meeting September 14, 1981 Page 2 Trainer: You know, they ought to write those statutes in the spirit of EEOC too, and take out those masculine pronouns. Does that mean you're going to get her out of Purchasing and concentrate on Personnel then? _H~ud~en~s: That's right. We're splitting it this budget year. I'm looking for a ur~P chasing Agent. Trainer: I might---I might help you out there, on the side. We've got some people come through the office. No, I think htat would be good. Hudqens: So, beginning in October, well, as soon as we hire a Purchasing Director, s~ie~wi~ have no other responsibilities except Personnel . Trainer: O.K. The--ah--I understand, I called Jim after we had the--ah--the-- we were confirmed by Council and--ah--asked him who had drawn the black bean and got the three year term, which turned out to be me, which I--I think he said he pulled straws or something, and I had decided even before I found that out that I was going to suggest at our first meeting that whoever had drawn the longest term, provided everybody was---it was ok with everyone, that that person would be appointed Chairman, because I felt like he would end up living with this thing a little longer than the other two. Randall: Sure. ~J~ner: That's fine. Randall: That's fine. "Trainer: I don't--I don't want to--ah--you know, take on more than anyone else wants to do. I don't think I am any more qualified to do it than anyone else, it's just that I--I got the shortest straw or the longest straw---however you want to look at it. Randall: I felt like the long term--ah--had the experience to be working with it-- a --Keith, same idea; whoever had the longest term would ah---- Joyner: That's fine. Trainer: (to Randall) Which term did you get, just out of curiosity? Randall: I got two terms. Joyner: I got the one-year trrm. Hud ens: And I'll be perfectl~~ candid with you, you know, in trying to determine ow to do that. There was n~~~lood way. I put the names in alphabetical order and said one, two, three. Joyner: That's fine. • Civil Service Meeting September 14, 1981 Page 3 ~~ Randall: That's fine. • Hudgens: Joyner, Randall, Trainer. That's how I arrived at the year's of terms. Trainer: I always had to turn my weapon in last when I was in the Army; I was the last guy in the chow line; I was the last guy for everything. Hud~cens: And, because, you know, all of you are extremely well qualified and I didn t---I had no reasonable method of saying that, well, you ought to be one year, and you - two, and you - three, or whatever status; I put them in alpha- betical order and said one, two, three---that's---that's how I arrived at the--- making the appointment. Randall: That's good; that's good. Joyner: O.K. I'd like to make a motion to make Mr. Trainer the Chairman Randall: I'll second that motion. Hudgens: All in favor? Randall: Aye. Joyner: Aye. Trainer: Aye. Hudgens: So ordered. Now we need a Vice Chairman, Mr. Chairman. Trainer: Well, we do have another item on the agenda; that's the Vice Chairman. I would like to suggest that we follow the same logic that we did on assigning the Chairman. Joyner: I make the motion. Trainer: I second the motion. Hudgens: O.K. Mr. Randall shall be the Vice Chairman. Trainer: The second item on the agenda is the discussion on the Civil Service Rues and Regulations. Mary, is this what you have been. working on? Davis: Yes sir. Hudgens: This is the proposed draft here. In addition to that, Chief Freeman has advised me one of the things that wasn't covered---was some information regarding-- ah--I guess called strength and endurance test? Freeman: Agility test. ''i .: • Civil Service Meeting September 14, 1981 Page 4 u Hudgens: Agility test. This relates--does not have any effect on anybody that's currently on the department? .This would be for new hires when we start looking at bringing in new people in the department and--ah--one of the questions came up about persons fitness for the job. And so, this information is--ah--who's using this, Baytown? Freeman: Baytown and Pasadena. Joyner: Yes, I noticed Bill Story's name. You--you just used his as a guide over there or something? Freeman: This--ah--material originally came from Ft. Worth. Jo ner: Yeah. Freeman: And--uh--Pasadena and Baytown adopted it because Ft. Worth--uh--had tried it in court as being job-related and it did stand up. Trainer: Oh, is that right? Hudgens: And, you know, I--that sort of thing--I told Herb this morning I had some ambivelent feelings about. I really don't know, you know, 95% of the officers work deals in interpersonal relationships, but there is always that percent of his work ~; where--uh--he is required to--to have some stamina--good physical condition and normally when he's called upon to have that, it's something he really needs. Trainer: Definitely job related. Would it only apply to applicants? Freeman: Yes sir. Trainer: Promotional considerations? Freeman: No sir; entrance. Randall: It's entrance only. Trainer: Entrance only. Freeman: My plans are--- Hudgens: I--I was fixing to say now, I--I think that the--ah--the Commission could probably--ah--require that a person stay in shape. You know, I know when I was in the military they had what they call the 5-BX Program every year. You had to--ah-- demonstrate that you were still in physical condition by doing--competing in ,their program and I---that's something that could be instituted as being appropriate, for both promotional or just requirements; stay in good physical condition. • • Civil Service Meeting September 14, 1981 Page 5 .~ Randall: Uh-huh. Herbie, do you know if--uh--uh--this is injected into their regulations with Civil Service about staying in physical fitness shape? Freeman: No sir, I don't know. Randall: You don't know? Freeman: They did require each member of their department between the ages of 21 to 35 to take the test. Randall: Uh-huh. Hudgens: For the entrance exam. Freeman: That's correct. ---and the ones that were already there. Hudgens: Even the ones---they make them take it once a year? Freeman: No sir. They made them take it when this was instituted. Hud ens: Oh, just the one time and they haven't had to take it since then? ~:. Freeman: No sir. Trainer: I wonder what they would have done, Herb, if somebody would've flunked it. Freeman: They'd--basically--they used it that one time to establish times on each problem. Randall: I know this is not any relation, Herbie, to the entrance, but just out of curiousity, does the department now require physicals? Freeman: No. Hudgens: We require physicals but no agility. Randall: How about in operations---as in progress no---in the force now--at any particular time; does the department require physicals every so often? Freeman: No. Hudgens_: There is a provision in the existing personnel policy that if a director or department head thinks that a person is a--physically unfit for duty--they can require him to have a physical, but there is no agility or endurance involved. That is primarily related to areas with a great deal of absenteesm involved." But what we wanted to do here is was provide you with the information and let you look at it to think about it to see if you think it would be appropriate to add some type of agility program for endurance for new hires coming into the department and/or in addition require some type of physical fitness testing annually by all members of the department thereafter. • • Civil Service Meeting September 14, 1981 Page 6 Trainer: We had the latitude under the Act to call for physcial fitness testing on applicants; we have that perogative. Hudgens: .Yes sir, I believe you also have it on existing personnel. Trainer: O.K. Chief, for applicants, what would you prefer to see? Would you prefer to see physical fitness testing for applicants? Freeman: Yes sir. Trainer: ---Just talking about applicants now. Freeman: Yes sir. Trainer: I definitely see where physical agility and stamina is needed by Police Officers in the line of duty, and for applicants. I think it would be very appro- priate for them to have physical endurance tests. Joyner: Chief, do you have any height minimums now or weight minimums or just the physical agility test. Hudgens: I think the courts have struck the height requirements; I think you can have a requirement that thier weight be in proportion to their height. Trainer: Right. Hudgens: --but we currently don't even have that. I have always wondered how Civil Service under the Statute--ages--once their past their 18th birthday can hire them as a police officer when they cut it off at age 35 or 36. Freeman: Before they reach their 36th birthday. Randall: What, Herbie? Hudgens: I have never understood how, legally, they can deny hiring someone who's 37 years old or 38 years old if their in good physical condition you know, and otherwise meet all the requirements. Joyner: Well, you'll probably see that in court. Hudgens: I have never understood how that's been able to stand up, because I know some people 45 years old that can run circles around some people who are 25 years old. --so I've never quite understood that but it's been around for a long time. I don't know if it's ever been challenged. Trainer: The age limit is still in the Act? Hudgens: Uh-huh. Trainer: That's interesting. We do not have any in our employment procedures for the company I work for. We have no limits on age and cannot. • Civil Service Meeting September 14, 1981 Page 7 ~~: Jo ner: I know with the State if a patrolman leaves the State Patrol and then takes another job for whatever reason and then he passes 35 or 36 the State will not let him go back. He may have 12 years or 10 years, but once he passes that magic age, he doesn't go back with the State as a patrolman. Hudgens: Like I say, I have never understood how the state got away with that in light of a lot of the court decisions and things that have occured, especially in the 70's. Jo ner: It possibly has never been challenged in court. Trainer: Well, if the upper age limit is specifically called out in the Act, then we don't need to worry about it because that's---- Hud ens: Well, there are exceptions to that. One is if a veteran he can go to age--what--38? Freeman: I'm not sure about a veteran. Hudgens: --or if he has 5 years police service prior to-- Davis: A person shall be certified as eligible for a beginning position with the Police Department who has reached his 45th burthday but--- Hudgens: That's if he has 5 years previous experience. Davis: Right. Randall: Mary, where are you finding that at? Hudgens: That's in the Act itself. Randall: O.K. Davis: It's about three-quarters of the way down. Hudgens: We currently don't have any vacancies in the patrolmen's slot, do we? Freeman: No sir. Davis: These agility tests might help to week out some of our Workmen's Comp. prob ems too. Hudgens: That has never really been a problem in our Police Department. Trainer: Yeah, it's 36, Mary. It's 36. He's not to be considered if he's past 36, unless he's got 5 years previous experience and then that can go up to 45, but people without prior experience--under 36--you're out. That's strange. ~• • • Civil Service Meeting September 14, 1981 (. Page 8 Hudgens: I don't see how they get away with that, nor do I see the need for it. Trainer: -----provides that you have a good physical fitness test, which is the better way to do it than just use age, just like you say, there's some 36 year olds that--or 40 year olds who are in super shape. Hud ens: l~Je wanted to give you the first-round copy of this thing, first draft, and it's double-spaced so you can make notes, or marks, or whatever and then sometime between now and the first, Commission needs to formally adopt the Civil Service Rules and Regulations. ---and these things in the first year, you know,. they're not to be considered cast in concrete because I feel confi-dent that during the first year of operation there will be times that there's something that's not covered adquately; that things will need to be amended. It's kind of like anew pair of shoes, you're going to have to wear them a while and break them in. We're all going to be new at this. Mary's done a lot of research in putting this together. Herb's spent a lot of time with her and they've done a little traveling to some of the area communities that have Civil Service and visited with their Chiefs and their Personnel people. , Trainer: I think we're all going to want to have a little time to sit down and read this without going into it here. Would you or Mary like to just like to talk to us about anything in general in here; general comments; some of your research, and C how you researched it? • Davis: Well, briefly, how I researched it is getting different cities' own local rules and regulations which have to follow 1269m. Trainer: 6Jhich ones did you get? Davis: I have got Pasadena, Galveston, League City, Kileen, Baytown, Port Arthur, and what this is - is basically a composite. Trainer: That's plain. Davis: I am not--- Hu_ dgens: She has gone through these things and read theirs, talked to those folks a out those things that they like and things that they don't like, then trying to take the best of all those things and compile them into one document. One of the things I might mention here that might need to be done within 90 days following October 1st is - we need to put on a promotional examination for Sergeants. We will have three vacancies. Trainer: Why will we have the vacancies? Are there people leaving? . Hud ens: No, in the current organizational structure of the department we have the c assifications of Detective which is salary-wise between Patrolman and Sergeant, and in looking at the classification system for the department, one of the things ~• • Civil Service Meeting September 14, 1981 ~ ~ Page 9 ~~ • that will provide the Chief more flexibility in assigning people ---because if you move a person from one classification to another the only way it can be done is by competitive exam; so the option was to either create a classification called detective, which someone would have to take a promotional exam to make a detective, or make them all patrolmen, and then assign them to investigation or make them all Sergeants and assitn them to investigation. So in looking at that, the option of making them detectives did not seem like a good idea because of having to give a promotional examination, and that is kind of a specialty area where you can assign someone there, maybe because of a particular interest or expertise, rather than give a promotional exam. Also because of the size of the department, being as small as it is, there will be some classifications that is going to be difficult to get enough together to take the test. And so, we've ended up with two options; one is to make them all patrolmen or make them all Sergeants. If we made them all patrol- men, some of them would not receive any salary increase because their salary falls between a patrolman and a Sergeant, and so the option was to go ahead and make them all Sergeants, and that way he can move those people between patrol or criminal investigation, depending on the needs of the department, just by assignment. He can assign a Sergeant to criminal investigation or he can assign them to patrol. Randall: In your pay status, Herb, do you have a set policy with duty of service in your promotional, I mean as far as advancements in pay? How does that work in the department? ~• Freeman: We have a step program with the City that's------ Hudgens: Yeah, the current pay schedule on all the employees is based on merit. In other words, when you come in, the City currently has a policy that says you serve a 6-month probationary period so everybody comes in and then their given a set range, a step, and after 6-months their eligible to go to step 'b', assuming they satisfactorily complete their probation, then there's one year between each of the following steps where they become eligible for a merit increase to the next step provided their performance is satisfactory. Randall: In other words, you sort of have wage progressions and then your merit takes over and---- Hudgens: --the wage progression is based on merit and one of the problems we ran into with this was that Civil Service says not merit; it says everybody in the same classification will be paid the same salary and they may be paid in addition thereto any longevity pay, seniority pay, certification pay, etc. which they may be entitled. So what we did--we kept a step system but we based it strictly on longevity. We'll have a patrolman that has under 6 months service or until he completes the academy, which ever is later on this thing. When he comes in, he'll start at a certain salary, and when he completes the academy then he'll get a step increase. Once he goes over a total of 12 months service, he'll get another step increase; then over 24 months; then over 36 months, and then they top out at 36 months. The same thing would be for Sergeants and Lieutenants, with the exception that they won't have the 6 months deal; theirs would be a year, over 12 months, over 24 months, over 36 months. • Civil Service Meeting September 14, 1981 ~~ Page 10 u •Trainer: I think its important that we understand the classification system and the pay system that the Police Department operates under. I like to make one point here: It's my understanding the Commission is not responsible for establishing the pay scales, nor the classifications. Is that correct? Hudgens: That's correct. Trainer: That's the specific responsibility of the City. Hud ens: The only -thing the Commission will establish will be the---you know---you can establish the requirements--- Trainer: For those positions. Hud ens: ---for those positions. Trainer: Definitely. Hudgens: --but not the classifications nor the salary structure, or the number of authorized people in those positions. Trainer: Once, ah, the Police Department becomes formally covered by these rules and regulations, etc., does the City--can the City go in and change the organi- zational structure of the department? We're probably looking at a Police Chief-- ah--X number of Lieutenants, X number of Sergeants, X number of Patrolmen. Is it within the latitude of the City to go in and say: Well now, we're going to have two Lieutenant positions rather than three? Hud ens: Uh-huh. Trainer: O.K.---or are we going to have two Captain positions, or something like that? You can eliminate, or add to--- Hud ens: Right. Trainer: ---through the normal--- Hudgens: Right, and--ah--when they do that their--ah--when a position is deleted, there are provisions within the Act of how those employees that fall in that position is deleted or treated and--ah--I would envision that,--ah--what would occur hence- forth--any changes--there's going to be additions because this is relatively basic-- any change to it is going to be additional personnel or additional classifications. Randall: Mary, have you--ah--in the material that we have received here; have you given a breakdown of the department, the Police Department at all? Davis: Classifications? ~~ • Civil Service Meeting September 14, 1981 Page 11 ~~ Randall: Classifications; not classifications---Personnel lines? .Davis: No, as I had completed this, this had not been finalized by Council, in fact, t~ieir still waiting to pass the budget. I guess that's going to be done this coming Wednesday night. Randall: What I meant in this respect was the organization itself, from the Chief on down---names---is what I'm talking about. Davis: I'll be sure and get that for you and I'm also going to see that you get copies of--ah--do you all have access to the Statute itself? If you don't--- Joyner: I do. I've got the books in my office. Trainer: Uh-huh. Davis: (to Randall) I'll get you one. Randall: O.K. Davis: (to Trainer) Do you have one? Trainer: No. Davis: I'll get you one too. Trainer: Dexter, is your office in Pasadena? Joyner: First National State Bank Building. Davis: (un-intelligible) Trainer: I was--I just got out of (un-intelligible)----boy it was raining. We had about an hour delay in Atlanta. I didn't know if we were going to make it here or not. Davis: I visited with your secretary two or three times. First, she said you would'nt be in, that you were coming in at a later time. Trainer: Yeah, (un-intelligible) Hud ens: This past year we had--ah--the Texas Commission on Law Enforcement Officers Standards and Education in Austin come in and do a personnel study or staffing study for us and--ah--I'm having copies of that run for you now, that lays out the recom- mended changes in staffing in the department. One of their recommendations was--ah-- in the Dispatchers office. We were light on personnel, so in this year's budget we're adding four clerks, which will provide one person for each shift on a 24-hour basis to help the Dispatchers answer the phone, handle the teletype--what have you. ,~ • Civil Service Meeting September 14, 1981 Page 12 Freeman: Organizational chart. C~ We have three Lieutenants----- Hudgens: Well, right now one of those is Asst. Chief that's over Detectives, I.D., and Records. Freeman: ---and then--ah--administrative Lieutenant, who handles all the paperwork, he's over the Humane, the Dispatchers, and Maintenance, and then Lieutenant Powell is over Patrol Sergeants and the Patrol Division. Trainer: Is the Patrol Division the biggest division? Freeman: Yes sir. Hudgens: There's a total of 16 patrolmen? Freeman: Sixteen, and four Sergeants. Hudgens: ---and one of those Patrolmen is assigned to the Court as a Warrant Officer and baliff. Freeman: I have a detailed organizational chart. I will run copies and get them to you. It's a better chart than this is. Hudgens: Total personnel is 30, including non-sworn is 31? 33? Freeman: Thirty-three. Hudgens: Thirty-three? Freeman: Yes sir. Randall: Thirty-three total? Freeman: That's non-sworn and sworn. Hudgens: Does that include your Crossing Guards? Freeman: No sir. Hudgens: No, that does not include Crossing Guards. Trainer: Ah--sworn and non-sworn--I must not--- Hudgens: Sworn is the officers--that's--certified police officers have the authority to arrest; then we have a bunch of civilian personnel. All dispatchers are civilian personnel; secretaries, etc. The only ones---- Trainer: They still come under the Chief? ~~ • • Civil Service Meeting ~ September 14, 1981 Page 13 Hud ens: Yes; the only ones that are subject to Civil Service are the sworn personnel. Trainer: That's what I thought. O.K. Freeman: Those with the power of arrest. Trainer: Right, that was my understanding. Where do the--like the Reserve Officers-- ah--that we see at football games and things like that---do they have the authority to make arrests--or do they not? Freeman: Only under my authority. Trainer: Do they come under the Act while their on duty? Hud ens: No. Trainer: Then that's provided for then. I'm sure somebody thought of that. Hudgens: I don't think the Act speaks for Reserves at all. Freeman: There is a State Law that does speak to Reserves but the Act does not. Trainer: Just out of curiousity, how is that handled; you say under your direction and authority. Freeman: O.K., the Texas Commission on Law Enforcement Standards and Education will give you requirements that they must meet to become Reserve Officers, and the activities that they must perform during that time to stay Reserve Officers. Hudgens: In addition to that, we have a City Ordinance that establishes our Police Reserves; that establishes it, sets out some general requirements and, I think, sets an authorized strength. Freeman: It's sets out the number, yes sir. Hudgens: And--ah-- the total supervision of that auxiallary service is under Chief Freeman. One of the other items, I think, that's really not on the agenda but needs some discussion today is the Texas Commission that has, ah, a standard ---I really don't know if it's a standard---what do you call it? Freeman: It's a recommended entrance exam. Hudgens: It's a recommended general knowledge entrance examination that has been validated for cultural bias and all these other things, that we would propose to the Commission to adopt, and--ah--that---for our entrance examinations only. We would develop our promotion exams. But, our entrance examinations are a validated test we can get from the Texas Commission on Law Enforcement Officers Standards and Education. • • Civil Service Meeting September 14, 1981 • Page 14 Trainer: You know, the testing is a major item we need to cover. Hudgens: Do you have some of that information on that? Davis: I have some--ah--in visiting with the different Personnel Directors or Civil Service Directors, they have been using texts----- Hud ens: I'm talking about the entrance exam. Davis: They did not give us a copy of the entrance exam. Hudgens: Didn't they give you the information on it though? Davis: I thought you had that. Hudgens: No, I don't Trainer: We might not need it now. What did you find in talking with other depart- ments on how they went about establishing their test procedures; their actual test questions and things like that? Davis: They are using--ah--in fact virtually every one of them I had talked with, had used material from that resource right there. ---and they do have study guides in which you can take test questions. Trainer: They are standardized tests? Davis: Yes, or you can make them up. Now, there's other sources where you can get standardized tests. Freeman: The Commission is, at this time, trying to develop a promotional exam. It aFi s not been developed at this time. Some of us have signed an agreement that we are interested in their promotional exam, which I did sign to make us a part of it. It doesn't bind us to anything but makes us available to the Commission as being interested in it. Davis: I think it's going to keep us from having some problems as far as having the test questions challenged. Trainer: I think they ought to be related for promotional exams (un-intelligible) Jo ner: There's some suits pending now in Pasadena. Two Captains, I think, have sued----or two Lieutenants--- Trainer:They dropped that suit. There's three Captains. Joyner: Smith, and I think--- . Trainer: Right, they dropped their suit. Civil Service Meeting September 14, 1981 ~• Page 15 Hudgens: Are they challenging the promotional exam? Trainer: The three Captains that were eligible for the test did not pass the test and they promoted the Lieutenant to Asst. Chief. The Lieutenant passed the exam. Hudgens: I was talking to Fritz Lanham in Baytown. Baytown has been Civil Service for some time. He was telling me that they had given a promotional exam for Sergeant and nobody passed it. Trainer: The statements of the three Captains---they thought they had made their point to the City by taking the action they took. I just couldn't figure out what the hell they were trying to say. I think they were trying to gracefully crawfish out of a problem they had gotten themselves into. Freeman: Mrs. Davis and I contacted the Director of Civil Service in Galveston and he said it got to be a game as to who was going to file the next lawsuit on a promotional exam, so it is quite a problem. Trainer: The--ah--kind of testing we have to establish---have you worked up some recommendations for us in terms of the type of test to adopt? Hudgens: Well, the format is pretty well set by the Act. Trainer: Right. Hudgens: It must--everybody must have the test. It has to be graded so its either multiple choice or true and false. books that the tests will be taken from have not be-n adop the hand-outs that Mary gave you. She started to get some literature in the profession. There's two things that can get someone, say, from up at Sam Houston --ah-- be something that can The questions or the ted. That was one of information or current be done; ah--we could Davis: That's what Pasadena does; they use a consulting firm out of Houston. Hudgens: ---or we could go to the Institute. Trainer: Department of Criminology. Hudgens: Yeah, ah--matter of fact, one of the Chairmen of the Department---he's one of the Chairmen within the Division within the department up there---is a fellow by the name of Weylon Pelcher, who is an Attorney and has been at the University now since, I guess, about 1970--69--70, somewhere in there. He is a past--ah--Director of Public Safety for the City of Corpus Christi; he was a legal advisor to the Police Department in Chicago; a very knowledgable person. We could contact Weylon and maybe he'll give us some assistance in drafting some type of promotional exam or get current literature to take the test from. Trainer: Has any--have any of you all seen anybody else's test? ,• Freeman: No sir. • Civil Service Meeting September 14, 1981 Page 16 ~~ Davis: No, we're going down to Galveston sometime this week and he's going to be working with us on recommendations for different (un-intelligible) Trainer: Well, thats supposed to be pretty confidential, I understand. Hudgens: Yes, it is. Davis: He told me--don't leave it in the office. Sleep with it. Freeman: This--ah--entrance exam Mr. Hudgens was talking about a while ago is sent to Mrs. Davis through the U.S. Mail or ahnd delivered and she must sign for it and if one of them is lost then we're in a world of trouble. Randall: Uh-huh. Herb, how about your working hours? Is that established by Council? Freeman: Yes. Hudgens: What do you mean? Randall: Well, what I mean, ah--by the City? Freeman: The number of hours? ~. Randall: Uh-huh. --and the way your scheduled. How are you working now? Are you working on a --I know you work 24 hours, but are you set on monthly shifts or weekly shifts or how are you working that? Freeman: Monthly shifts but I set those. Council doesn't, I do. Randall: O.K. I was just curious. Hud ens: Yeah, the scheduling in the department, ah--I think the way they have their scheduling set up now, they all have a rover shift. --ahtwo or three people to kind of float that they can assign depending on what----. They maintain records of dates, and time of call, the type of call, when the demand of service is the greatest and if that shifts, then you can move your people accordingly. Davis: Here's what's given out when promotional exams are scheduled; those people who are eligible to take the exam and suggested reading sources, and those are posted at least 30 days prior to a promotional exams, and I have skads of examples of those. Trainer: Is there anything you want to tell us further about the first draft rules and regulations? Davis: I think it's pretty well self-explanatory and I also included a definition--- Trainer: That's excellent. ~~ • Civil Service Meeting September 14, 1981 ~• Page 17 Davis: ---part there in the first, just for your benefit, because I don't know in industry if your personnel terms would be the same as ours, and it stays within the guidelines of 1269m. If you have any suggestions and so forth---that's why I double-spaced there. Trainer: O.K. Randall: O.K., there's one thing that I had a question on. Is the material, you know, when you set up these tests for related materials that officers can--ah-- or applicants can--ah-- pertain to, it would be on file at different areas within the City. Hudgens: Yes, the City's required to ah--tell the officers what text the test is going to be over; in other words, you don't have to tell them what chapter and page but you do have to tell them what book or books the questions are going to come out of. Then you have to have a reasonable number of those to be checked out-------- Davis: He said a reasonable number and also give them enough time should--tell them where they can buy that source should they wish to---- Hudgens: Ah, we envision we'll---we've got one of the small conference rooms back there we're going to try to convert into a little library, and we'll move Mary's ~ office back there next door to it this next year so when we start aquireing those we'll just put them on a shelf back there and then officers can come in and either check them out or thudy them at that time. ' Trainer: Jim, the officers that are currently in the Police Department----is currently under the, ah, the rules and regulations of the City, or they were -ah- which items in here are going to be major differences other than what we would normally expect to be--- some rules and regulations? Hudgens: There, ah--the major items of inconsistency deal primarily with longevity and vacation. --oh, sick leave-- Davis: It's the same--- Hudgens: The same--ah-- There's a provision in our Policy that when a person is terminated for cause--ah--they forfeit any right to pay for accumulated but unused sick leave or vacation time where Civil Service; we can't forfeit that----- Trainer: Uh-huh. Hudgens: I don't think you'll find very many things in here other than basic--ah-- Davis: ---and promotional exams. Hudgins: Yeah, and the promotional exams. Trainer: That's something. • Civil Service Meeting September 14, 1981 Page 18 Hudgens: But, ah--do you have some extra copies of our Personnel Policies? They might want to--we'll just give you a copy of those and you might want to kind of compare them as you go through. We--our Policies were adopted in '79? October of '79. Freeman: Yes sir. Trainer: Maybe that might even help me on another problem. I'm in the middle of rewriting our Company's domestic Personnel Policies. Hud ens: Ours are extremely liberal and at the time they were written there's some things in there that go a little far, but--- Trainer: Well, I suggest we go through this one on our own time and then compare what they've currently got with the current City's policies and procedures, and then discuss this at our next meeting. Hope to be able to adopt it. I think Mary's done a lot of good work on this. Randall: Uh-huh. Hud ens: When would you all envision you could have your next meeting? Randall: Yeah; that's what I was going to ask--ah-- Trainer: Well, my only constraint is--ah--I'm pretty wide open after this week--ah-- I think we need to ----when is our---when do we have to have this----this thing is effective the 1st of October, right? We need to meet next week, I think. Randall: I agree with you. Joyner: Yeah, that's fine. Trainer: ---to get all the rules and retulations and then testing, I think, is going to take us a while, and we don't have much time. Hudgens: Well, now, the entrance examination---we do not have any vacancies currently for new people coming in, however, as soon as practible after-=-we would like to go ahead and establish an eligibility list. Randall: Right, uh-huh. Hud ens: ---and get that list so we won't --- Trainer: Agreed. Hudgens: ---you know, be waiting if we do have a vacancy---to have someone on the top of the list. Now, the promotional exams for the Sergeants will need to be taken care of within 90 days. Trainer• --from-- ~_ Civil Service Meeting September 14, 1981 ~. Page 19 Hud ens: --from October 1. Randall: --from October 1st, yeah. Hudgens: --so we will need to---does it say you have to give the exam or you have to fill the vacancy? Freeman: Fill the vacancy. Hudgens: So we have to amke the appointment within 90 days--ah--so----- . Trainer: O.K. We need to get our testing established. That's a major thing being---- Hudgens: I think the initial one ought to be the promotional exam. Trainer: Agreed. Freeman: I would like to encourage the Commission to accept the Texas Commission's entrance exam. Hudgens: Yeah--if you all would just go ahead and adopt that saying that, you know, we're going to use the Texas Commission's entrance exam, well that would be taken ~ care of, as far as the testing. We'll get Mary to get you some more information on it and ah--- Trainer: I see no reason not to do that. I'd like to have a look at it, but none- the-less.--- Hudgens: Well, let's see, she was going to---- Trainer: There would be two parts to that test along with our physical fitness test. Freeman: Apparently so. Trainer: Alright. Hudgens: O.K. We need to run some copies of this. Davis: Check that tape. Hud ens: Oh, it's still running. Freeman: We do have a document that needs to be signed as soon as possible. Hud ens: This is a ---I guess a contract? Davis: Yes, and we do need to do something about that ASAP. .• ! • Civil Service Meeting September 14, 1981 ~~ Page 20 Hudgens: Yeah, they were wanting us to do it sooner and we kept telling them that we ca't, that we felt sure that the Commission would agree for the entrance exams since its already been validated and everything. Jo ner: By the word validated, do you mean tried in court; approved? Davis: Uh-huh. Hudgens: They've a--- Davis: It complies with EEOC and so forth. Hudgens: They've taken out all the cultural bias and its suppossedly to test general knowledge --ah-- Davis: By the way, too, we might be covering this next, too; on greivances and appeals--when we get into that---hopefully we wont too soon. I've been calling around to different cities that are close and have Civil Service and the only one that has a hearing coming up is Galveston on September 28th.. It's an indefinite suspension hearing for a Police Officer and --ah-- Trainer: Do you have a time and all that? Davis: It's at 5:00 P.M. at City Hall. Trainer: 5:00 P.M. at City Hall. Hudgens: ldell, what we can do is, if you'd like, is all get together and go down in one can and maybe we can leave here and drive down there. Trainer: I'd definitely want to do that. Randall: I do to . Davis: I think it would be a real good idea because it would give us a little bit " of procedure and so forth. I also have some minutes of procedures. Randall: What day is that, Mary? The 28th? Hudgens: The 28th. The 30th is on a Friday so that would be Wednesday. Trainer: Wednesday. Davis: --and ah--Benny Davis is the Civil Service Director down there, and is very, very helpful, and I know he would----- Trainer:What's his name? Davis: Benny Davis. ~• ~ ~ Civil Service Meeting September 14 , 1981 Page 21 Randall: What will that cover, Mary? Davis: This suspension--- Hudgens: That's another word for fired. Davis: Yeah. Trainer: He may never work here again. Randall: That ought to be very interesting. Trainer: This is the agreement to take this ----- Hudgens: Yeah--to use the Commission's test. Freeman: Baytown does use it. They're the closest one I do know that uses that--- Hudgens: How long-has Beau been using that over there? Freeman: Since its been validated. Hudgens: How long has that been, do you know? , Freeman: A cou le of years. P Hudgens: A couple years. Have they had good experience with it? Freeman: Yes. Jo ner: I would advise we probably use that since it has already been tested in court and upheld. I don't think we probably---the three of us, have the time to sit down and write a comparable test and if we did, it would always be subject to question. . Trainer: I agree. Joyner: --and this one has been proved. Hudgens: Well, if you all would to ahead and approve that then I'll go ahead and execute the contract. Joyner: I make a motion that we approve the validated entrance exam. Randall: I'll second that. Trainer: All that approve, say aye. Joyner: Aye. • • , Civil Service Meeting September 14, 1981 ~• Page 22 Randall: Aye Trainer: Aye. Let's do it. Davis: Shall I say we're planning on going then, on the 28th? Trainer: Yes. Jo ner: Provided we can all get there. I may have a trial problem and the reason is our dockets here---you're put on call. I may be number 28 on the docket, and so you just stand by; it's kind of like waiting for your wife to have a baby, you know its going to happen but they just call you and say 'be down here--- so, I'll try to make it. Davis: I'll check in with all of you before time-- Joyner: Super. Trainer: We'll give you a call. Everybody give Mary a call. Hudgens: --so we'll pick up the van from, oh-- C Davis: Stan? • Hudgens:--from Stan from Parks and Recreation, and we all ought to be able to fit in that van. Trainer: I think it would help all of us; I know it will help me. Randall: Yeah, you bet. Davis: I think it would be a great idea. Randall: I think, Keith, I'll really enjoy that. Davis: This one's going to be really a trial by fire too, from what I hear. Randall: Does it start at 5:00? Davis: Yes. Randall: --at City Hall. Davis: Yes. Randall:Uh-huh. Freeman: I'd like to go because I'd like to see how the Chief of Police presents • his case. • • Civil Service Meeting September 14,.1981 ~~ Page 23 Davis: That's one of the other things that Ben has been helping him with-- is how you write a ---if he is going to be giving any disciplinary action that might result in a hearing, or whatever. Randall: I really appreciate this, Mary, what you've done there and I would like to make the suggestion to you in the future; if you come up, you know, that we're not aware of, or come across any other ah--- Davis: I'd be happy to. I really would. Randall: Let us know about it. Davis: In fact, I've got a lot of information, and that information I think you might be interested in scanning over, I'm going to run off for you. Well, here's one; it's a procedure for a hearing. Joyner Super. Trainer: Oh yeah, that's great. Davis: If you'd like to scan over that, I'll run you copies of that----so I'll be gathering things for you. Joyner: Great. Trainer: That's first class. Do you want to try to set a time for our next meeting? Randall: Uh-huh. Trainer: I think we ought to try and go ahead and do that. Does anybody have a calendar? Shall we say the same time? Is Monday a good day? Hudgens: Monday's fine. Whatever you all want. Jo ner:I'm not sure, --ah-- Trainer: Do you all want to do it in the middle of the afternoon? Hudgens: No, you can do it at 8:00 in the morning, you know, --9:00 at night, you know. Joyner: O.K., let me get back to the office and check my calendar and than I'll call Mary. Davis:O.K. Joyner: --and see because I don't do what I want to do, I live by------ .~ • • Civil Service Meeting September 14, 1981 ~. Page 24 Trainer: For our organizational meetings which this one, and I think we're probably going to have maybe one or two more; would you all prefer to meet after working hours the next couple of meetings? Joyner: Oh, I don't mind meeting during the day, the only thing, like I'm called on these dockets---- Trainer: I just know their not going to do that to you after hours. Joyner:Well, true, unless I get a jury that's hung up, you know, but anytime during the day is fine if I'm not in court or on call. And, I would rather aboid night meetings because I'm sure everybody would rather be home with their families. Davis: Also, I'll keep in contact with you----- Hudgens: Ah, these next meetings, since we're only going to have one or tvro more, to make sure that everyone's here, ah--maybe a late afternoon meeting or a early morning meeting. Trainer: That might be best. Hud ens: After you get the, you know, routines set, well then the other meetings C• can be set as necessary. Trainer: Why don't we check our schedules. Let me call everybody in the morning. How's that? Joyner: Fine. Randall: O.K. Jo ner: I know it will be much better after the next couple of days. Randall:I know I couldn't do it at 8:00 A.M., not til about 9:00 A.M., or a quarter til nine or something like that. Trainer: Late afternoon is going to be better for me----late afternoon. Hudgens: Why don't you just check the schedules and whatever is appropriate, call Mary and let her know and she'll post the agenda. But we'll need at least 3 days now to get the agenda posted. Trainer: No back dating? Hudgens: No, no back dating. Joyner Very true. • Hudgens: We've got some folks that kind of watch us closely on our open meeting law. • Civil Service Meeting September 14, 1981 Page 25 ~~ Trainer: Oh well, thats all right, we've got no problem with it at all. No problem. Davis: I will have 1269m-------- Hudgens: --and she's going to run you a ---did all of you get a copy of the Act? I had sent out some copies initially. Do you all still have your copies? Davis: Was that this? Hudgens: Yeah, yeah. Davis: This has all the updates as of the last legislative session. Hudgens: What I did---I took the Act and xeroxed all the pocket portions and cut them out and pasted them in the right place. Davis: Except you didn't include p,q,r, & s. Hudgens: I guess I didn't. You need to add those. I tell you what, we'll just run you off a new set. Get those set up where we can send those out by mail to their houses. Trainer: On our next agenda we will hopefully adopt the rules and regulations. Hudgens: Yeah, make whatever changes you deem appropriate and adopt------ Trainer: --and then a general discussion on the testing. Hudgens: Right, and we need to think about wether or not you want to add to those regs the agility test. Trainer: Well, as part of the testing requirements; that's part of the entrance exam. Hudgens: Right, that would deal---but it needs to be stated in here that it is required that they take an agility test and what the agility---do you have to point " out what the agility is---do they do that? Freeman: It's in the information that I gave the Commission. Hudgens: O.K., now so---you need to decide wether you want to include that information in the regs. Trainer: Yeah, we've got that. Well, within our Rules and Regs, we will say that we did adopt the entrance exam from the Texas Law Enforcement Commission, right? Hudgens: Right. Trainer: We'll have to change it and put that in there. I see no problem at all about having this physical fitness test. I think its necessary. c • Civil Service Meeting September 14, 1981 Page 26 Randall: I do too. Trainer: And also, the Chief wants it. C~ Hudgens: Yeah--and Herb---Herb says he can work with Chief Turner in Baytown and use their facilities so we don't have to construct anything so--ah--we can carry the people over there and run them through the place over there and use their facilities. Trainer: That'd be great. Hudgens: And, in the time sequence for employment, there are certain things that's done. The first thing we do is take people's names that want to take the test; give out the notice that the test is going to be given and then they have to come in and actually file an application that gives all the name, rank and serial number and all the stuff--ah--then the test is given after that; then based on the test, that's when we begin the background investigation? Freeman: Yes sir. From the time of the test, those that passed the test are given the date the agility tests are to be given. And then the background investigation will proceed at that time. Hudgens: Well, I mean the background investigation is actually the last thing that is done prior to approving them for a eligibility roster because that's the one that's going to cost us the most money and we want to week out everybody we can before we spend a bunch of money doing a background investigation. Trainer: That's something. Hudgens: I guess the background investigation is the last hurdle before they go on the eligibility roster. Trainer: The background investigation is done by our own department? Freeman: Yes sir. Randall: Who does your physicals, Herbie? Freeman: Dr. Miller. Hudgens: And, ah, I have a little bit of concern. I can't holler too much with what we re paying but I would like to see a little more thorough physical--it's ah--- Davis: The Chief and Lt. La Fitte came up with a good idea a while back and that is contracting with---their opening some clinics---I noticed there's one in Deer Park and there's a couple in Pasadena. Hudgens: All I'm saying is that I want something more than 'turn your head and cough' . as a physical. • • Civil Service Meeting September 14, 1981 .Page 27 ~~ Freeman: Dr. Miller gives a pretty extensive Physical. bucks. Randall: He's pretty stiff. I think it's ninety-six Hudgens: Well, I don't mind paying the ninety-six bucks if they do a good, thorough, you know, examination. I've seen some who've had in mind the old military system, you know. Trainer: I know the one we give to what we call our 'key employees' is one-hundred- eighty dollars. That's out of a medical clinic in Houston and that's pretty standard. The ninety dollars wouldn't surprise me at all and probably---- Hud ens: All I'm saying is if we're going to have a physical, I want it to be a good physical. Randall: I know what you mean. Davis: Are you talking about management type----- Randall: You don't get them out of a military-type physical. (un-intelligible--multiple voices) Trainer: It takes a while to really give a good physical. Hudgens: I don't know if that uncludes a stress test or all that other sort of thing. Trainer: Over 45, ours is; over 45 gets a stress test; full stress test. Others get just the normal EKG at rest. Hudgens: I don't know what all Dr. Dunn is doing. Freeman: I don't know. I can find out, but I don't know off-hand. Trainer: A physical exam would be part of the entrance requirements wouldn't it? Hudgens: Yes. Trainer: Yeah, so I think we're going to have to---I think we need to find out currently what's done and look at it. Hudgens: The Police Department is the only one now that we've been requiring physical exams from and not the other employees. We were paying twenty-five dollars for an exam, you know, and we were just blowing twenty-five bucks, you know, and we weren't accomplishing anything so I just--- Davis: Well, when it comes to liability as far as Workmen's Comp. injuries and so forth, your not going to disprove that someone has a back injury or has had one for a long time. • • Civil Service Meeting September 14, 1981 ~• Page 28 Hud ens: Well, the only thing is, is on the application procedure, you can ask them a series of medical questions,, and if they say they haven't had these things, well then, you can dig up medical records where they've been going to the Doctor for three years because of a back injury, you know. It kind of helps you a little bit, I think. Trainer: I don't think----we wouldn't have any problem requiring a physical examina- tion, would we? Hudgens: No, the Act requires it, but it doesn't talk about how thorough the examina- tion may be; it can be anything from going over to an EMT or paramedic over here and getting a hernia test too--- Randall: It doesn't give a breakdown of an exam, just a----- Hudgens: No, it just says they shall have a physical examination and it doesn't---- and that's what I'm talking about; I'd sort-of like us to------ Randall: You'd sort of like us to set up guidelines for a physical? Hud ens: Yeah, I guess that's what I'm saying. I'd like to see us, if we're going to have one------ !• Trainer: Why don't you get us a copy of what Dr. Miller does now. Hud ens: O.K. (to Davis) Would you do that? Trainer: Mary, would you do that? Freeman: We're required to give a psychological exam as well, under the Statute. Hud ens: Yeah, now this is----we're currently using a service agency out of Dallas? Freeman: Dallas, yes sir. Hudgens: ---that gives a written examination. You send it up there and they evaluate it. I don't know --ah-- Trainer: Do you know what the name of the test is, by any chance? Freeman: No sir, I don't know the name of it but it's very interesting. Trainer: I've taken several of them and administered several of them, and there's some standards. Freeman: Lt. La Fitte administers this test and I don't know the name of the company, II r~~y don't. • Trainer: I'd like to see a copy of it because I have quite a few of those tests in by files. It's a basic psychological test. • Civil Service Meeting September 14, 1981 ' Page 29 Hud ens: I really don't know how effective that is, ah--- Freeman: It's about as effective as you can get an opinion out of a psychiatrist. Trainer: That's right. They can identify traits very well by the way you answer the questions. What they can't identify is how a person will react under certain sets of circumstances. That's why a psychiatrist always gets----you can not tell how people are going to act under certain sets of circumstances. But they can identify traits very well; whether or not you're short-tempered, you know, hot- tempered, you know, if your a easy-going sort of person, by your life style; but they cannot predict how you will act in a situation. Freeman: I have had one under this system we're using now rejected. I'm trying to think who it was--you know, the circumstances, but I don't remember, but we did have one rejected on the psychological. Trainer: Yeah, the psychological tests are very important. Randall: Herbie, are we over anything on the entrance---testing of the new applicants, at all? Have we covered everything that you know of? Freeman: I think so, yes sir. Trainer: We end up with medical, a good general applicant entrance test provided by the State Commission which has already been validated, which will be good, and a physical fitness test, right? Freeman: ---and a psychological test. Trainer: --and the psychological testing, that's---I can't think of anything else. We've already almost adopted ourselves an agenda for next week, haven't we. Davis: Yes, we really have. Hudgens: Do you have all the agenda items down for next week? Trainer: We can't have any administrative reports can we? Hudgens: No, I stuck that there to ah--just in case we came up with something after the agenda was posted. You know, you kind of sneak those in under administrative reports. Joyner: --Cover your flanks. Hudgens: Right, that's the way to bring up information. You can't act on it officially but---well I guess you can but--- Trainer: I'll check with all of us tomorrow and see when we can meet again, hopefully • within the next five to seven days. Mary knows what we're going to talk about and is going to get some stuff together for us. Is there anything else we need to talk about---we need to cover officially, before we close the open meeting? Chief? • Civil Service Meeting September 14, 1981 ~• Page 30 Freeman: Mrs. Davis and I plan a trip to Galveston sometime this week to talk to Ben Davis again. We'll probably spend the day, and may bring back some information. Hud ens: --or if you all can break loose and go, you know. Trainer: I'm off to kentucky. I'm trying to head-hunt a D.P. guy. Davis: He's a very helpful young man, and seems to know his business. Randall: This week, Herb? This week, you say? Freeman: We're going to try to, yes sir. Randall: You haven't established the day yet? Freeman• No sir. Davis: I'll call you all if your interested. Randall: Would you? Joyner.: Super. I need to find out where I am from day to day. ~• Davis: They---1've found just thlking with these different people and---different cities have different ways they set things up, but it simplifies 1269 so much more than reading it because you really see how it works. Trainer: Oh, absolutely. Randall: It's going to work out nice, Jim. You know Richard Doussand, my boss? He's on the Commission in Baytown. Hudgens: Oh, really? He's on the Civil Service Commission over there? I'll be darned. Davis: I called them and asked them if they had any hearings coming up but evidently everything's quiet over there right now. Randall: Richard can help me a great deal. We can get with him. Hudgens: Yeah, he can talk to us. Davis: O.K., well,------ MEETING WAS ADJOURNED AT 4:30 P.M.